Jim Wallis, on "moral language ... that is inclusive of everybody"

 
I went to Jims Wallis' talk at Book Passage bookstore in Marin and at the First Congregational Church of Berkeley the other week. I asked him to define spirituality, values, and morality? I also asked him if he identified as being progressive? In both cases he avoided answering the question. I'm not sure what to make of that?

For me, I don't like the word morality (which is one of Jims main terms), to me, it's simplistic categorization of values and actions into the categories of right and wrong, good and bad. I don't choose to do things because someone tells me to do them... like the 10 commandments.. I do them because I have the value of empathy and therefore empathize with people and try to act from that position.. I don't steal because I'm afraid my hand will be cut off if I don't obey the Sharia. I empathize with people and know I wouldn't like having someone steal from me. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Seems like there needs to be an effort at a progressive definition of:
Values, spirituality, principles, ethics, faith, and morality. I've started asking people how they define values and principles. I should have video clips of that in a few weeks.

edwin rutsch
What Are Progressive Values? Documentary Project
http://ProgressiveSpirit.com

 

Hi, Edwin,

I looked at your Progressive Spirit web page and also the Humanity Quest pages linked to it. Those are both interesting projects. Humanity Quest reminds me of some intriguing things I've read about the value and beliefs of various indigenous cultures.

I get the impression that you may dislike one particular frame for the word morality, or at least seemed to dislike it at the time you write that comment. The imposition of harsh rules that you describe bothers me, too. I see that the Humanity Quest web site has a page of topics which explore concepts of morality. Lakoff's book, Moral Politics, explores a frame for morality, also. Perhaps those would be sources of alternate frames?

As far as this Hat Tip, I submitted a nomination to highlight one particular televised conversation. Wallis' comments about moral values reached me, even though he doesn't necessarily represent my views about religion. That seemed like a good example of effective frame language to me. Since there was another conversation about faith going on here, I thought Wallis' Daily Show clip would be an interesting reference point.

I hope that's helpful.

Cheers

etbnc

http://BluePuzzle.org

I do not think morality needs to be tied in with values, like Jim does. There's a lot of people that have a negative feeling about the word. i.e. moralizing. A lot have a negative feeling about the word values as well because it's been taken over by conservatives. I'm working at reclaiming the word. I'd prefer the word spirit over values, but know one would know what I mean.

Here's a model I'm working on to show the relationship between the words;
spirit - values - principles - philosophy - issues - policies, etc.
Still working on it.
http://progressivespirit.com/Projects/ValuesModel/index.htm

For me, the definition of Morality is the placing of values into an either,
good or bad / right or wrong, column.
I wasn't impressed that Jim couldn't even define morality.
How do you define it? maybe your definition will give me a better feel for the word.

Here's some more basic personal definitions. not saying they're according to Webster, but my personal simplistic shorthand definitions.

Spirit - the essences felt body experience. with minimal reason attached to it. a moment of overwhelming inspiration, fear, or joy, love, etc

Values - felt body experience with a ranking quality to it. one value is preferred over an other.

Ideals - values you hold up as something to strive for.

Principles - an intellectual concept derived from the underlying values.

Philosophy - creating a reasoned framework or relationships, etc.

Ethics - the branch of philosophy that deals with the relationships of between Values, the study of values.

Issues - the problems we deal with.

Policies - the programs we try to create to deal with the issues.

edwin
ProgressiveSpirit.com

btw
humanityquest.com is basically just a list of values. There are 500 or so listed.
is was going to be a gateway to each of those values, but I never really developed it farther.

edwin

I know this topic has scrolled off the page for most readers, but I've been meaning to follow up on this conversation.

I think about the M word in a somewhat different way, I guess. The things I intended to say about that here I just incorporated in another thread called, Whose Empathy?

http://www.rockridgenation.org/questions/whose-empathy/view

And now I feel I have lived up to my own sense of obligation to wrap up this thread. :)

(That comment might make more sense in light of that other thread.)

Cheers

I've received a report from a Rockridger who had difficulty getting the video clip to play. Has anyone else experienced difficulty with it?

The clip uses "Flash" animation/video, which may require a plug-in for one's web browser. And like many video clips on the Internet these days, it probably works best with a high speed (broadband) connection.

Any other problem reports, or hints, fixes, or work-arounds?

Thanks