Ask Rockridge: Responding to Conservative Name-Calling

We liberals believe in the Constitution and want to restore it for America. Conservatives seem to think the Constitution is nothing more than an antiquated and irrelevant concept.

Also, the strict constitutional ruse for stopping progressive innovation. The lack of the health care right in the Bill of Rights is just that- a failure. Sticking to the constitutions flaws is not good.

If someone says that I hate America, I reply that I do not hate America. I just hate Americans, because they are just a bunch of suckers and lazy cowards.

If someone says that I don't support the troops, I reply that I pay my taxes.

Then I do some name calling. I call Republicans crooks or traitors. I refer to them as bums and deadbeats and thieves.

If they give me the finger, I give it back.

(It is vitally important to sink to their playground insult level. Moral oneupmanship is always seen as a combination of snobbery and weakness. It is the same as walking out of the room when a discussion turns into an argument.)

John Hanks, Laramie, WY

...you got to:

"You want everyone to fend for himself."

To which, I'm convinced (after any number of attempts at dialog with conservative bloggers

http://stupidcountry.blogspot.com/search/label/dialog) the conservative generally will respond, "YES....that's EXACTLY the point that you moonbats just don't seem to be able to grasp," and walk off grinning and feeling self-actualized.

Oh come now, fend for yourself? The ownership society stops at the end of your driveway. The common wealth comes through your tap and runs down your drain. No one really "fends for themselves" in a modern society. Without the services government provides there would be no "self made men". The very idea of a "self made man" is one of the biggest fallacies of all time. The very idea of a "self made man " is impossible. In fending for ones self one uses numerous services provided by government to get ahead. Want me to name them? Do you have some time? Local streets, sewers, water and power feeds, local police and fire, bridges, public schools: elementary, middle school, high school and colleges, water treatment plants,state highways, state attorneys general to protect consumer interests, state secretary's of state to protect business interests, federal highways, numerous federal agencies that regulate and protect people in all sorts of situations i.e FDA, SEC, CDC, FEMA, The court systems from county right on up to the supreme court. Need I go on?

...that about half of the things you list are government institutions the doctrinaire conservative is likely to believe should be abolished or privatized.

We live in the next to the smallest county in Virginia. There are NO stoplights. I take my garbage to the dump (It has been privitized).We drink well water. The conservatives know what they are speaking about. It is the way much of rural America lives! They fight raising teachers salaries. Many do home schooling. This is real folks. Not some conservative's dream.

...your point is?

The fact that we already live this way goes beyond the idea that the conservatives believe that these things "should happen". They see it as their way of life and wonder why anyone wants to interfere with it. This is a very different problem than their merely wishing for something they don't have. The roads in Virginia are in bad condition, transportation problems are nightmarish, and infrastructure all over the country is suffering because too many voters choose to let this happen rather than pay taxes. It seems to me that the progressives have their head in the sand if they don't realize this.

I wonder, whenever I read the things written by the Rockridge group, how they expect their arguments to change people who see their way of life as something that is being threatened. Often it seems that the fact that these people control my life is forgotten by the progressives as well as the people who feel threatened by the progressives. If politics is a local thing, then we have a problem to solve here, for the folk who control my life locally will NEVER read what is written here or in the many books we all cite so often. Am I being negative? I think not. We just lected Jim Webb to the Senate. We have a good progressive Democrat as governor. We just elected a new State Senator and had a majority in this little county for the first time. None of this resulted from the kind of rhetoric we are using here. The local Democrats have built a strong political force from nothing in about six years. Maybe we have George Bush to thank for that? When I spout off about Lakoff's writings their eyes glass over. I think we may be just a bit out of touch with the reality of communities like this. Arrogance will not solve that.

"The local Democrats have built a strong political force from nothing in about six years. Maybe we have George Bush to thank for that?"

did any progressive radio move into your area? while you are not sure of what caused the improvement my guess as to what caused this bush catastrophe despite common sense and decency, was the GOP talk radio monopoly and the uncontested synchronized repetition of talking points and distortions and attacks that blankets the country to 50 -70 MIL. i suggest that may account for a lot of the percieved "rugged individualism" and independence if it is realistically balanced against the trashing of America.

much of the conservative framing was established with their talk radio monopoly and until there is some new kind of Fairnesss Doctrine passed the GOP roves and think tanks will have the largest soapbox by far. that giant soapbox of talking points and oneliners for the water cooler or the lazy cable show talking heads may be the greatest impediment to progressive reframing efforts.

Here is a good linguistic challange. What does it mean to hate an abstraction? What is the "America" that one is being accused of hating? "America" is so many things to so many different people. Even given that, how far outside this nation's boundaries do you have to go before you find real hate? Are those folks all unjustified? There is more to this than a simple set of political rebuttals. I have been reading "God is Red" by Vine Deloria. It is a critique of Western Christianity from the perspective of Native American religious beliefs. If anyone has good reason to hate this country, those folks do. There are plenty of others. This line of thought has some real problems associated with it.

What to do when ones patriotism is attacked? That is not the time to go down your mental checklist. That is not the time for counter arguments.It all depends on how you are feeling at the moment as the situation presents itself. We should all be able to tap into the anger we have been living with for all these years and not be afraid to focus it at whoever mistakes liberal or progressive for timid. There is only one thing I hate is a President and Commander in Chief(you should say)who has sworn to protect and uphold the Conmsstitution of the United States of America and while we are being attacked on 9-11 sits in a nursery class reading a childrens book.I would go on and grab a breath here and then continue. The rest is up to you. Stop being so afraid of bullies. They are cowards.

i love america. i hate traitors - those that lie, steal, and wrap themselves in the flag to avoid attack for abandoning the constitution and the bill of rights.

If I may use a tennis analogy:

"Aw you liberals just hate America." This is a hard serve. The first need is to put the ball back in your opponent's court. One way to do this is to ask a question which forces him to justify his statement (and therefor, himself, which puts him on the defensive.) Something like, “Why do you say that?” Then you demand specifics. This is standard sales technique to deal with objections and excuses.

(A version of this is useful for dealing with impertinent remarks or prying questions. “Why would you say such a thing?!” “Why do you ask?” This forces the other to justify his remarks.)

First, avoid any attempt to argue by analogy; zealots either are incapable of understanding analogies or play dumb, pretending to take them literally.

Then, take a page from “The Karl Rove Playbook.” Attack the opponent's strengths. The Conservatives believe their strong suit is national security, so frame your response in those terms.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower recognized that education is a national security issue, and established the National Defence Student Loan Program (later became National Student Direct Loan and then Perkins Loans.)

Similarly, universal health care is a national security matter. It would enable domestic industries capital to compete more aggressively with imports, maintain the healthcare system at a level capable of dealing with natural or manmade catastrophies, and would contribute toward a vibrant economy of more productive workers who would also spend more. It would also increase the productivity of the education system, as children with health issues do not learn well.

Cast “national security” in the light of America as a people, a system of governance (of the people, by the people, for the people) and a philosophy (of self-evident truths that all people, not just Americans, are created equal, with God-given rights.) America is not defined by its borders or its buildings; to defend America is to defend those democratic principles, not abandon them at the behest of a deranged jihadist. The shrill cries that “9/11 changed EVERYTHING” aid and abet the terrorists by encouraging us to be terrified and would give bin Ladin just what he wants: for America to change. To Islamic militants, universal rights are anathema. They believe in special rights for their tribe only, as in demanding that others follow their dictum that no graphic depiction be made of The Prophet, yet they feel free, even compelled to blow up statues of Buddha.

Conservatives spread fear of a terrorist WMD attack, using nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Yet they have permitted these very dangers to threaten our nation by failing to inspect toys for lead paint, meat and vegetables for E. coli, and oppose strict inspection and regulation of the power industry.

Point out that conservatives believe in Big Government. The military is the largest portion of federal discretionary spending.

And it doesn't hurt to hit them with their weapon of last resort, the argument from authority, when they start citing the Bible. When they seek to divide us, to argue that everyone should fend for himself, point out that “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: (Matthew 12:25) “One for all, and all for one.” (Dumas) “United we stand; divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.” (Patrick Henry) “If we do not all hang together, we shall hang separately.” (Franklin) National security and patriotism are team activities, and the Islamic militants are a team. People who seek to divide us aid the terrorists.

Another great way to respond is to ask them what patriotism is. Ask them to define it. The responses (very few) and reactions (lots) I've gotten are pretty hilarious and they are almost never coherrent and the ones that are end up just being absurd. You end up making them look stupid...while doing nothing and having them do all the work for you.

That said, patriotism is WAY overrated. Most of the people who have attacked me and/or labelled me anti-American or unpatriotic actually do nothing for anyone but themselves. People who actually care about this country and the people and things in it and for what it stands for are too bush doing stuff to attack or defend some silly, abstract quality that measn nothing without any context.

So, more often than not, you have someone who does stuff for their family, community, environment and society out of the sense that the world and this country can be better and works and speaks out to make it so, get attacked by some idiot who does ntohing for anyone but himself and is still working off his hangover from the night before.

In the second paragraph, "bush" should be "busy"! hahaha

Liberals see a better future, conservatives see a better past, usually one that involves a few people sitting on a porch drinking mint juleps while a lot of other people do the work in the fields with no hope of making it to the porch. The mistake of conservative voters is thinking that someday they will be invited up to the porch in thanks for keeping others in the field.